September 8, 2016 01:33 PM

Cornyn objects to passing S.2952, Stopping Mass Hacking Act

Senator Wyden asked unanimous consent that the Senate take up and pass S.2952, Stopping Mass Hacking Act.

Senator Cornyn objected.

Unofficial transcript of the exchange below:

[ram]{13:07:20 NSP} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. WYDEN: MR. PRESIDENT, I WILL SHORTLY --

[ram]{13:07:23 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATE IS IN A QUORUM CALL.

[ram]{13:07:25 NSP} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. WYDEN: I ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT TO VACATE THE QUORUM CALL.

[ram]{13:07:28 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: WITHOUT OBJECTION.

[ram]{13:07:33 NSP} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. WYDEN: I WILL SHORTLY ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT THAT THE SENATE
PASS S. 2952, THE STOPPING MASS HACKING ACT. THE BILL IS JUST

ONE SENTENCE LONG, COLLEAGUES. WHAT IT DOES IS SIMPLE, BUT IN

MY VIEW, IT IS EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT. IF THE SENATE DOES

NOTHING, IF THE SENATE FAILS TO ACT, WHAT'S AHEAD FOR AMERICANS

IS A MASSIVE EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT HACKING AND SURVEILLANCE

[ram]{13:08:06} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

POWERS, AND IT WILL TAKE PLACE AUTOMATICALLY ON DECEMBER 1 OF

THIS YEAR. THE LEGISLATION THAT I SEEK TO PASS, THAT HAS BEEN

BIPARTISAN HERE IN THE SENATE, WOULD STOP THIS EXPANSION, THIS

AUTOMATIC EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT HACKING AND SURVEILLANCE

POWERS. NOW I SAID IT BEFORE AND I WANT TO SAY IT AGAIN THIS

AFTERNOON. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD

OUT THERE, AND I TAKE A BACK SEAT TO NONE WHEN IT COMES TO

[ram]{13:08:40} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

MAKING SURE THAT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS

HAVE THE TOOLS THAT THEY NEED TO KEEP AMERICA SAFE. IN FACT,

  1. PRESIDENT, I WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO ADD THE SPECIFIC
PROVISION EXPANDING EMERGENCY POWERS FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO ACT

WHEN THERE'S A THREAT. EMERGENCY POWERS SO THAT THE GOVERNMENT

COULD MOVE TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND COME BACK AND GET

[ram]{13:09:14} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE WARRANT LATER. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

HERE. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS A STAGGERING EXPANSION

OF GOVERNMENT HACKING AND SURVEILLANCE AUTHORITY. THESE ARE

MAJOR CHANGES TO FEDERAL POLICY, MR. PRESIDENT, THAT ARE GOING

TO COME ABOUT THROUGH AMENDMENTS TO RULE 41 OF THE FEDERAL

RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. SO THIS IS THE KIND OF MAJOR ISSUE

[ram]{13:09:51} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THAT TRADITIONALLY COMES BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. I SAY

TWO OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT I ENJOYED VERY MUCH WORKING WITH --

CHAIRMAN GRASSLEY IS HERE. SENATOR CORNYN, A MEMBER OF THE

JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, DISTINGUISHED MEMBER OF THE FINANCE

COMMITTEE. WE HAVE BIG POLICY ISSUES THAT COME BEFORE THE

FINANCE COMMITTEE, COME BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. WE WORK

ON THEM. WE WORK ON THEM IN A BIPARTISAN FASHION. CHAIRMAN

HATCH AND I MEET EVERY WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON TO WORK ON THESE

[ram]{13:10:23} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

KINDS OF MATTERS. THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING TO GO ON HERE WITH

THIS MASSIVE EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT HACKING AND SURVEILLANCE

AUTHORITY. THESE RULES ARE GOING INTO EFFECT, COLLEAGUES, ON

DECEMBER 1 IF THE CONGRESS DOES NOTHING. IF THE CONGRESS JUST

SAYS, GEE, WE'VE GOT OTHER THINGS TO DO, THESE RULES GO INTO

EFFECT. AND I GUARANTEE YOU, THERE ARE GOING TO BE MANY

AMERICANS THAT ARE GOING TO BE VERY UNHAPPY. AND THEY'RE GOING

TO ASK THEIR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHAT THEY DID TO STOP THIS

[ram]{13:10:55} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

ILLINOIS-ADVISED APPROACH. BY -- TO STOP THIS ILL ADVISED

APPROACH. IN THE OTHER BODY CONGRESSMAN SENSENBRENNER, THE

DISTINGUISHED CONGRESSMAN FROM WISCONSIN, IS VERY CONCERNED

ABOUT THIS ISSUE. SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT SECURITY AND

LIBERTY, BUT THESE AMENDMENTS DON'T GIVE THEM MUCH OF EITHER.

THIS MAJOR POLICY CHANGE IS GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE

GOVERNMENT TO HACK IN TO THE PERSONAL DEVICES OF AMERICANS AND

COLLECT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THEM. THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT BY

[ram]{13:11:33} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

USING COMPUTER PROGRAMS CALLED MALWARE. THE MALIN MY VIEW IS

LIKE -- THE MALL IN MY OPINION VIEW, IS LIKE MALEVOLENT, MAKE

US LESS SAFE, NOT MORE. IT COULD END UP DAMAGING NOT ONLY OUR

PERSONAL DEVICES BUT THE POWER GRID IN HOSPITALS AND NEARLY ANY

OTHER SYSTEM CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET. GET YOUR ARMS AROUND

THAT. HOSPITALS IN IOWA AND TEXAS AND OREGON BEING DAMAGED NOT

BECAUSE THE CONGRESS MADE A POLICY DECISION, BUT BECAUSE

[ram]{13:12:08} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

SOMETHING WAS DONE AUTOMATICALLY AS A RESULT OF A CHANGE IN THE

RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. I JUST WANT TO SAY TO COLLEAGUES,

I THINK THERE ARE GOING TO BE A LOT OF UNHAPPY AMERICANS IF

THAT'S THE CASE. THE RULE CHANGE SAYS THE GOVERNMENT CAN SEARCH

POTENTIALLY MILLIONS OF COMPUTERS WITH ONE SINGLE WARRANT

ISSUED BY ONE SINGLE JUDGE. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF

LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCESS BETWEEN THE VICTIMS OF A HACK AND THE

PERPETRATOR HIMSELF. THE CHANGES WILL MAKE PEOPLE THE VICTIMS

[ram]{13:12:42} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

TWICE OVER. ONCE BY A HACKER AND ONCE AGAIN BY THEIR

GOVERNMENT. YOU WOULDN'T PUNISH THE VICTIMS OF A TAX SCAM OR A

PONZI SCHEME WITH A PAINFUL AUDIT. IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP. NOW

I UNDERSTAND THE PASSING LEGISLATION BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT IS A

DIFFICULT TASK. THESE DAYS YOU CAN HARDLY GET UNANIMOUS CONSENT

TO DRINK A SODA AT LUNCH TIME. BUT THIS ISN'T AN ISSUE WHERE

THE SENATE CAN DO SOME KIND OF OSTRICH ACT AND IGNORE THE

[ram]{13:13:17} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

PROBLEM. BY SITTING HERE AND DOING NOTHING THE SENATE WILL BE

GIVING CONSENT TO A SUBSTANTIAL EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT HACKING

AND SURVEILLANCE AUTHORITY. BY NOT HACKING, THE SENATE WOULD

GIVE A STAMP OF APPROVAL ON A MAJOR POLICY CHANGE THAT HAS

RECEIVED NO HEARING, NO OVERSIGHT, NO DISCUSSION IN SPITE OF

THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT COMPANIES IN AMERICA,

MOST IMPORTANT COMPANIES IN AMERICA ARE SPEAKING OUT IN

OPPOSITION TO THIS. IN MY VIEW, THE LIMITS OF SEARCH AND

[ram]{13:13:49} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

SEIZURE ARE UNQUESTIONABLY AN ISSUE FOR THIS CONGRESS TO

DEBATE. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SHOULD NOT HAVE THE POWER TO

CHANGE THE PRACTICAL MEANING OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT WITHOUT

THE PEOPLE'S ELECTED LEADERS WEIGHING IN. INSTEAD, THE SENATE

OUGHT TO BE DOUBLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE

ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO CONDUCT PROACTIVE CYBERSECURITY POLICY

THROUGH SOME KIND OF OBSCURE BUREAUCRATIC PROCESS LIKE RULE 41.

THERE AREN'T FOLKS IN OREGON, TEXAS OR IOWA OR ANYWHERE ELSE

WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE DETAILS OF SOMETHING CALLED RULE 41. BUT

[ram]{13:14:23} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

I'M TELLING EVERYBODY, THEY'RE GOING TO BE REAL CONCERNED ABOUT

THE EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT'S HACKING AUTHORITY. SO I HOPE MY

COLLEAGUES WILL JOIN ME IN SUPPORTING THIS BIPARTISAN,

BICAMERAL LEGISLATION. IF THIS BILL CANNOT PASS TODAY BY

UNANIMOUS CONSENT, I LOOK FORWARD WITH MY COLLEAGUES TO HAVING

A HEARING ON THIS ISSUE. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN BIPARTISAN

INTEREST IN THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ON THIS. LEADERS OF THE

[ram]{13:14:59} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

JUDICIARY COMMITTEE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT. I HOPE THAT THAT

HEARING WILL

[ram]{ NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF THE SENATE PROCEEDINGS.}

[SEARCH]  [ADVANCED] { 2016/09/08 TIME: 13-15 , Thu. 114th SENATE, SECOND SESSION}

[SEARCH]  [ADVANCED]

[ram] { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF THE SENATE PROCEEDINGS.}

AMERICANS CAN HAVE A CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY HOW

DEVASTATING THIS PROPOSAL WOULD BE FOR THEM. SO WITH THAT, MR.

PRESIDENT, I ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT THAT THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE

BE DISCHARGED FROM FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF S. 2952 AND THE

SENATE PROCEED TO ITS IMMEDIATE CONSIDERATION, THAT THE BILL BE

READ A THIRD TIME AND PASSED AND THE MOTIONS TO RECONSIDER BE

[ram]{13:15:34} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

CONSIDERED MADE AND LAID ON THE TABLE, WITH NO INTERVENING

ACTION OR DEBATE.

[ram]{13:15:41 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: IS THERE OBJECTION?

[ram]{13:15:42 NSP} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. CORNYN: MR. PRESIDENT?

[ram]{13:15:45 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE MAJORITY WHIP.

[ram]{13:15:49 NSP} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. CORNYN: MR. PRESIDENT, RESERVING THE RIGHT TO OBJECT, LET
ME START BY SAYING TO MY FRIEND FROM OREGON, I ADMIRE HIS

PASSION AND I ADMIRE HIS CREATIVITY AT BRANDING LEGISLATION.

BUT FOR REASONS I WILL EXPLAIN, THIS IS A COMMONSENSE PROCEDURE

THAT DOESN'T RELATE TO THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, THE CONSTITUTIONAL

RIGHT TO BE PROTECTED FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES.

THIS IS A VENUE PROVISION. THIS HAS TO DO WITH WHAT COURT YOU

[ram]{13:16:19} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

GO TO IN ORDER TO GET A COURT ORDER, TO GET PERMISSION FROM A

COURT AFTER ESTABLISHING PROBABLE CAUSE TO CONDUCT THAT SEARCH.

SENATOR WYDEN IS WEEING CONSENT TO BLOCK -- IS SEEKING CONSENT

TO BLOCK PROCEDURES THAT HAVE BEEN THE PRODUCT OF LENGTHY

CONSIDERATION INCLUDING HEARINGS AND DELIBERATION. THESE RULES,

AS ALL RULES THAT ARE APPLIED IN THE COURTS ARE, HAVE BEEN

APPROVED BY THE RULES ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THIS IS A GROUP OF

[ram]{13:16:53} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

JUDGES, LAW PROFESSORS, AND PRACTICING ATTORNEYS. AND THEN IT

WAS APPROVED BY THE JUDICIAL CONFERENCE OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND THEN, MOST SIGNIFICANTLY PERHAPS, THEY WERE ENDORSED BY THE

UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. SO IF THERE WERE CONSTITUTIONAL OR

OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AND CONCERNS ABOUT THIS, YOU WOULD THINK

THAT THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND WOULD HAVE FLAGGED THOSE AND

DECLINED TO ENDORSE THEM, BUT THEY DIDN'T. THESE CHANGES HAVE

BEEN APPROVED BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMONSENSE MEASURES, AS I SAID

A MOMENT AGO, THAT RELATE SOLELY TO THE APPROPRIATE VENUE FOR A

[ram]{13:17:29} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

SEARCH WARRANT. THEY SIMPLY MAKE CLEAR THAT WHICH FEDERAL

DISTRICT COURT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD GO TO IN ORDER TO APPLY TO

A JUDGE FOR A SEARCH WARRANT IN CASES INVOLVING SOPHISTICATED

CYBER CRIMINALS AND PEOPLE LIKE CHILD PORNOGRAPHERS AND EVEN

TERRORISTS. ULTIMATELY, THAT MAKES OUR GOVERNMENT MORE

EFFICIENT BY MAKING IT CLEARER WHICH COURTS CAN CONSIDER THESE

REQUESTS FOR SEARCH WARRANTS AND BETTER-EQUIPPED TO STOP THESE

[ram]{13:18:03} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

HEINOUS CRIMES. AS I SAID EARLIER, THESE AREN'T SUBSTANTIVE

CHANGES. THIS DOESN'T CHANGE THE BALANCE BETWEEN PRIVACY AND

SECURITY IN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. RATHER,

THE GOVERNMENT MUST STILL GO BEFORE A JUDGE AND MAKE THE

REQUISITE SHOWING MURED TO GET A SEARCH -- IN ORDER GET A

SEARCH WARRANT. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHO BUT THE MOST RADICAL OF

PRIVACY ADVOCATES WOULD SAY THAT EVEN AFTER MEETING THE

[ram]{13:18:35} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

REQUIREMENTS OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT BEFORE A JUDGE,

ESTABLISHING PROBABLE CAUSE TO GET A SEARCH WARRANT, YOU WOULD

SAY, NO, WE DON'T WANT TO ATHROUGH TO HAPPEN. I CAN'T -- ALLOW

THAT TO HAVMENT I CAN'T IMAGINE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE WE WOULD

SAY THE FOURTH AMENDMENT IS TRUMPED BY CONCERNS ABOUT PRIVACY,

ESPECIALLY WHEN THE TARGETS THAT MUST BE PROVEN UP IN COURT ARE

CYBER CRIMINALS, CHILD PORNOGRAPHERS AND EVEN TERRORISTS. WELL,

[ram]{13:19:06} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

WE CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN, AND THAT'S WHY THESE RULE CHANGES ARE

SO IMPORTANT. OUR COLLEAGUE CLAI CLAIMS THE RULE CHANGES ARE

ALLOW FOR MASS HACKING AND FORUM SHOPPING. THAT'S THE BRANDING

I TALKED ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING. BUT THESE CLAIMS HAVE BEEN

CONSIDERED AND REJECTED THROUGH A THOUGHTFUL, THOROUGH PROCESS

THAT I HAVE A ALREADY DESCRIBED. THESE CHANGES ARE MODERNIZING

OUR LAWS AND UPDATING THE TOOLS THAT GOVERNMENT HAS TO

INVESTIGATE SO THAT THEY CAN BETTER PROTECT US FROM THE VERY

[ram]{13:19:38} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

REAL AND INCREASING THREAT OF CYBER CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS.

THE TRUTH IS THERE ARE MORE THINGS WE NEED TO DO NOITION THIS

TO -- NOITION THIS TO UPDATE AND MODERNIZE OUR LAWS. I WOULD

CLOSE, MR. PRESIDENT,LY SAYING THAT I KNOW THERE'S BEEN PUBLIC

CONCERNS RAISED AND INDEED I BELIEVE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME

BRIEFINGS EVEN TODAY BY FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES AND

THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY WITH REGARD TO RUSSIAN ACTIVITIES IN

CYBERSPACE, EVEN FOCUSED ON OUR VERY SYSTEM OF ELECTED OUR

[ram]{13:20:11} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

OFFICIALS IN THE NOVEMBER 8 ELECTION. THIS IS NOT A TIME TO

RETREAT AND TO ALLOW CYBERSPACE TO BE RUN AMOK BY CYBER

CRIMINALS OR PEOPLE WHO WOULD STEAL INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OR

CHILD PORNOGRAPHERS OR TERRORISTS. THIS IS A VINCENNESABLE----

THIS IS A VERY SENSIBLE TOOL OF VENUE. THE FOURTH AMENDMENT OF

[ram]{13:20:47} (MR. CORNYN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE CONSTITUTION PROTECTS ALL OF US, AS IT SHOULD, AGAINST

UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES. SO FOR ALL THOSE REASONS,

  1. PRESIDENT, I WILL OBJECT TO THE UNANIMOUS CONSENT REQUEST.

[ram]{13:20:56 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: OBJECTION IS HEARD. MR. WYDEN: MR.

PRESIDENT?

[ram]{13:21:00 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE THE SENATOR FROM OREGON.

[ram]{13:21:06 NSP} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. WYDEN: I WILL YIELD IN A MOMENT TO MR. DAINES, BUT JUST SO
WE'RE CLEAR IN TERMS OF MY RESPONSE TO THE DISTINGUISHED

SENATOR FROM TEXAS, HE HAS, AS SOME HAVE TRIED TO DO, SOUGHT TO

CHARACTERIZE THIS AS KIE KIND OF A ROUTINE KIND OF MATTER, THAT

THIS WAS A RULE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, OF NO GREAT IMPORT

WITHOUT ANY FAR-REACHING CONSIDERATION. I CAN TELL YOU, MR.

[ram]{13:21:36} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

PRESIDENT, CYBERSECURITY EXPERTS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE SPOKEN

OUT VIRTUALLY UNANIMOUSLY ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE

GOVERNMENT ACCIDENTALLY BREAKING THEIR COMPUTERS WITHOUT

TELLING THEM. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYTHING THAT IS ROUTINE ABOUT

THIS AT ALL. UNDER THIS CHANGE, THE GOVERNMENT CAN SEARCH

[ram]{13:22:12} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

POTENTIALLY MILLIONS OF COMPUTERS WITH ONE SINGLE WARRANT

ISSUED BY ONE SINGLE JUDGE. AND, TRAGICALLY, THERE'S NO

DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCESS BETWEEN THE

VICTIMS OF A HACK AND THE PERPETRATOR THEMSELVES. SO WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT CLOBBERING VICTIMS TWICE. FIRST THEY GET

CLOBBERED BY A HACKER AND THEN THEY COULD GET HURT BY THE

GOVERNMENT. NOW, THE DISTINGUISHED SENATOR FROM TEXAS SEEKS TO

PORTRAY THIS AS SOME KIND OF FAR-OUT KIND OF MATTER. VIRTUALLY

[ram]{13:22:43} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

ALL OF THE MAJOR TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE

WRITTEN IN OPPOSITION TO THIS. SCORES OF CYBERSECURITY EXPERTS

HAVE WRITTEN IN OPPOSITION. AND ONE OF THE KEY POINTS THEY MAKE

IS YOU DON'T PUNISH VICTIMS TWICE IN AMERICA. YOU WOULDN'T

PUNISH THE VISMS A TAX SCAM OR A PONZI SCHEME WITH A PAINFUL

AUDIT. THAT'S WHAT CAN HAPPEN HERE. AND THE IDEA THAT A CHANGE

[ram]{13:23:19} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

OF THIS MAGNITUDE WOULD BE MADE WITHOUT ANY DEBATE,

CONSIDERATION -- THERE'S BEEN NO HEARING ON THIS MATTER, MR.

PRESIDENT. I KNOW OF NO MEETINGS. I'D LIKE TO HEAR ANY MEMBER

OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE TELL ME ABOUT SOME MEETING THEY

WENT TO. I KNOW OF NO SESSIONS WHERE THE PUBLIC VOICE COULD BE

HEARD. SO I'M VERY HOPEFUL -- AND I INTEND TO QOM BACK TO THIS

-- AND I INTEND TO COME BACK TO THIS FLOOR AGAIN IN AN EFFORT

TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC IS AT LEAST BROUGHT INTO

[ram]{13:23:54} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THIS, BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU, SENATOR DAINES AND I REPRESENT A

LOT OF RURAL HOSPITALS, FOR EXAMPLE. WELL, CERTAINLY IF YOU

HAVE SOME OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD COULD HAPPEN IN TERMS OF WHAT

IT COULD MEAN TO COMPUTER SYSTEMS AND HOSPITALS AND OTHER KINDS

OF FACILITIES, THEY  THEY'RE GOING TO ASK THEIR SENATORS, WHAT

DID YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

WHY DID YOU JUST LET THAT RULE GO THROUGH THAT COULD DAMAGE

THOSE SYSTEMS THAT ARE A LIFELINE FOR AMERICANS?

[ram]{13:24:29} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

SO WE'RE GOING TO BE BACK, AND AS I MENTIONED BEFORE MY

COLLEAGUE CAME, IN THE OTHER BODY WE'RE STARTING TO MAKE A FAIR

AMOUNT OF PROGRESS. JIM SENSENBRENNER, A VERY INFLUENTIAL

MEMBER OF THE OTHER BODY, HAS TAKEN A GREAT INTEREST IN THIS. A

NUMBER OF COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES. SO WE'LL BE BACK. I'M GOING

TO YIELD NOW, MR. PRESIDENT. I KNOW MY COLLEAGUE FROM MONTANA,

WHO'S BEEN A WONDERFUL PARTNER IN THIS EFFORT, HAS SOME

COMMENTS TO MAKE. IT HIGHLIGHTS ONCE AGAIN THE BIPARTISAN

CONCERN ABOUT HOW THE MAGNITUDE OF THIS CHANGE, COLLEAGUES,

[ram]{13:25:04} (MR. WYDEN) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

WOULD TAKE PLACE WITHOUT ANY INVOLVEMENT -- NONE -- HERE IN THE

UNITED STATES SENATE. NO HEARINGS, NO DEBATES, NO DISCUSSION.

THIS IS A BIG CHANGE. AND I HOPE WE'LL DISCUSS IT. I YIELD THE

[ram]{13:25:18 NSP} (MR. DAINES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

FLOOR. MR. DAINES: MR. PRESIDENT?

[ram]{13:25:22 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM MONTANA.

[ram]{13:25:26 NSP} (MR. DAINES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

  1. DAINES: MR. PRESIDENT, MY DISTINGUISHED COLLEAGUE FROM
OREGON COMMENTED ABOUT HOW THE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES ARE

CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON. I SPENT OVER A DECADE IN THE

PRIVATE SECTOR -- IN FACT, 12 YEARS WITH A CLOUD COMPUTING

COMPANY. WE HAD 17 OFFICES AROUND THE WORLD, A PRODUCT IN 33

DIFFERENT LANGUAGES, AND SAW FIRSTHAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE

ENGAGED CERTAINLY IN THE HIGH-TECH BUSINESS AND THE CHALLENGES

RELATED TO HACKING. AND I KNOW FIRSTHAND THE CHALLENGES OUR

COUNTRY DOES FACE WHEN IT COMES TO CYBER CRIMINALS. WE WERE

[ram]{13:25:58} (MR. DAINES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

ATTACKED ROUTINELY HAND TO FEND THOSE ATTACKS OFF AND BUILD

ROCK-SOLID, HARDENED FIRE WALLS TO PROTECT OUR CUSTOMERS

BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE IT EASE REQUESTER FOR BAD ACTORS TO

-- HAS MADE IT EASIER FOR BAD ACTORS TO COMMIT A WHOLE HOST OF

CRIMES AND ALL FROM BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN ANYWHERE IN THE

WORLD. AND OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT INDEED FACES TREMENDOUS

CHALLENGES IN TRACKING AND STOPPING THESE CRIMINALS. THE FACT

IS, OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT POLICIES NEED TO BE UPDATED TO REFLECT

[ram]{13:26:33} (MR. DAINES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE 21st CENTURY REALITIES. BUT THESE POLICY CHANGES NEED TO BE

MADE THROUGH A PROCESS THAT IS TRANSPARENT, THAT IS EFFECTIVE,

AND IMPORTANTLY PROTECTS OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES. THE CHANGES TO

RULE 41 OF THE FEDERAL RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE WOULD ALLOW

THE GOVERNMENT TO HACK AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF AMERICANS'

COMPUTERS, INCLUDING INNOCENT VICTIMS, WITH WA SINGLE WARRANT.

THIS RULE CHANGE WAS APPROVED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WITH

LITTLE-KNOWN JUDICIAL CONFERENCE. FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES TO THE

[ram]{13:27:10} (MR. DAINES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

WAY WE ALLOW LAW ENFORCEMENT TO EXECUTE SEARCHES NEEDS TO BE

MADE. THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. WE ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT

CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE. HOWEVER, IT MUST BE THROUGH A PROCESS

THAT'S FULLY TRANSPARENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WE CANNOT GIVE

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT A BLANK CHECK TO INFRINGE UPON OUR CIVIL

LIBERTIES. NOW, IF CONGRESS DOES NOT ACT, THIS RULE CHANGE WILL

AUTOMATICALLY GO INTO EFFECT ON DECEMBER 1. SENATE BILL 2952,

[ram]{13:27:43} (MR. DAINES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

THE STOPPING MASS HACKING HACKETT, IT STOPS THE RULE CHANGE AND

WILL ALLOW CONGRESS TO CONSIDER NEW LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS

THROUGH -- AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT -- THE FULL, OPEN,

TRANSPARENT PROCESS THAT THEY DESERVE. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO

SUPPORT NOT ONLY THIS BIPARTISAN BUT BICAMERAL PIECE OF

[ram]{13:28:08 NSP} (MR. GRASSLEY) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }

LEGISLATION. I YIELD BACK MY TIME.