TRANSCRIPT: President Trump Holds a Bilateral Meeting With Mark Rutte of NATO, 7.14.25
[Video]
President Trump: OK. Thank you very much. It's an honor, a great honor to have a friend of mine, who we've become very friendly over the last number of years. We knew each other before, but Mark is the head of NATO, Mark Rutte: , secretary general of NATO. Highly respected by everybody that knows him, but in particular the European countries have great reliance on him and he's done a fantastic job. And we had a tremendous meeting. I guess it's about a month now, a month ago. And I think Mark will tell you that it was really, perhaps more important, the date of November 5th. That was the election day, maybe that was the most important because we made tremendous progress together. And one of the reasons that you're here today is to hear that we are very unhappy, I am, with Russia, but we'll discuss that maybe a different day. But we're very, very unhappy with them and we're going to be doing very severe tariffs if we don't have a deal in 50 days, tariffs that are about 100 percent. You'd call them secondary tariffs. You know what that means. But today we're going to talk about something else. And as you know, we've spent $350 billion approximately on this war with Russia and Ukraine and we'd like to see it end. It wasn't my war, it was Biden's war. It's not my war. I'm trying to get you out of it and we want to see it end. And I'm disappointed in President Putin because I thought we would have had a deal two months ago, but it doesn't seem to get there. So based on that, we're going to be doing secondary tariffs if we don't have a deal in 50 days. It's very simple, and they'll be at 100 percent. And that's the way it is. That couldn't be more simple. That's just the way it is. I hope we don't have to do it. But regardless, we are going to be -- we make the greatest military equipment in the world, whether it's missiles. You saw that recently in Iran, the way those planes flew in, they hit every single -- 14 bombs hit every target. Then you had the helicopters shoot a total of 30 bombs, 30 missiles, and they hit every single -- Marco, is that right, every single -- Pete, every single target. And it was, I guess, on a scale of 0 to 10, they say it was about a 15. That's how successful it was. That's how lethal it was, a word they like to use nowadays. But it was an amazing, well-organized attack that people in this country want to do for 24 years. You know, when we had the pilots in last week, they were saying, sir, we've been practicing this for 24 years, meaning people, not them, but other people that are a little older now, but they too. And you were the one that let us do it, but we've been practicing it three to four times a year for 22, 24 years because they always knew they had to stop Iran from doing what they were doing, which is trying to come up with a nuclear weapon, a nuclear bomb, and we did it very successfully. And we make the best equipment, the best missiles, the best of everything. The European nations know that and we've made a deal today, and I'm going to have Mark speak about it, but we've made a deal today where we are going to be sending them weapons and they're going to be paying for them. We, the United States, will not be having any payment made. We are not buying it, but we will manufacture it and they're going to be paying for it. Our last meeting of a month ago was very successful in that they agreed to five percent, which is more than $1 trillion a year. So they have a lot of money and these are wealthy nations. They have a lot of money and they want to do it. They feel very strongly about it and we feel strongly about it too, but we're in for a lot of money and we don't want to do anymore and we can't. But we make the best and we're going to be sending the best to NATO, and in some cases, to maybe, at Mark's suggestion, if we go to Germany where they're going to send early on missiles and they'll be replaced and NATO is going to take care of it. It's going to be coordinated by NATO and they're going to work very much with Matt Whitaker, who's right here, who's a great ambassador and Matt's going to be coordinating. You better do a good job, Matt.
Matt Whitaker: I will.
Trump: But Matt's going to coordinate. He's a very talented guy. He's going to coordinate everything. So in a nutshell, we're going to make top of the line weapons and they'll be sent to NATO. NATO may choose to have certain of them sent to other countries where we can get a little additional speed where the country will release something and it'll be mostly in the form of a replacement. And I'd like to have Mark and again, just a highly respected, pretty young guy, pretty young guy for having had the career that he's had because he had an amazing career before going to NATO. So we spent a lot of time together over the last couple of months and if you could say a few words, I would appreciate it.
Mark Rutte: Absolutely.
Trump: Thank you.
Rutte: Mr. President, Donald, this is really big. This is really big. You called me on Thursday, that you had taken a decision, and a decision is that you want Ukraine, what it needs to have to maintain, to be able to defend itself against Russia, but you don't want the Europeans to pay for it, which is totally logical. And this is building on the tremendous success of the NATO summit, the five percent, but also the decision to keep Ukraine strong and a decision to increase our defense industrial production. So based on that, that was Europe stepping up. This is, again, Europeans stepping up. So I've been in contact with many countries. I can tell you that at this moment, Germany massively but also Finland and Denmark and Sweden and Norway, we have Kingdom, the Netherlands, Canada, they all want to be part of this and this is only the first wave. There will be more. So what we will do is work through the NATO systems to make sure that we know what Ukrainians need so that we can make packages. Of course, in a way we discussed it this morning with Pete Hegseth at the Pentagon, in a way that of course, the US will keep on its stockpiles necessary to defend this country. That's absolutely clear. But it will mean that Ukraine can get its hands on really massive numbers of military equipment both for air defense but also missiles, ammunition, etc., etc. So if I was Vladimir Putin today and hear you speaking about what you were planning to do in 50 days and this announcement, I would reconsider whether I should not take negotiations about Ukraine more seriously than I was doing at the moment, if I was Vladimir Putin. But when I'm Ukraine, I think this is really great news for them. So I really want to thank you for that and it means Europeans paying for it. And again, I mentioned all these countries, we will deal with that and exactly as you said, it might also mean that countries will move equipment fast into Ukraine and then the US later backfilling it because speed is of the essence here. So really, thank you. This is important.
Trump: Great. You did a great job and it's a really great job. We've been very successful in settling wars. You have India, Pakistan, you have Rwanda and the Congo. That was going on for 30 years. India, by the way, and Pakistan would have been a nuclear war within another week the way that was going. That was going very badly. And we did that through trade. I said we're not going to talk to you about trade unless you get this thing settled, and they did. And they were both great, great leaders and they were great. But Rwanda and the Congo that was going on for 30 years and at least seven million people killed and killed with a lot of pretty rough weapons like machetes, heads chopped off, going on for many years. You couldn't even get near the countries. Nobody wanted to get near it, so frightening, and we got that one solved. Serbia, Kosovo, got that solved. That was going to be one that was going to happen. And again, that was something I used -- I used trade for a lot of things, but it's great for settling wars. That was really, very important. We're working, Marco's working very hard with everybody here on the Strip, the Gaza Strip. I call it the Gaza Strip, one of the worst real estate deals ever made. They gave up the oceanfront property, one of the worst deals ever made, but it was supposed to bring peace and it didn't bring peace. It brought the opposite. But we're doing pretty well on Gaza. Steve Witkoff is here and I think we could have something fairly soon to talk about. And we solved other one, one that we just seemed to have Armenia and Azerbaijan. It looks like that's going to come to a conclusion, successful conclusion. We worked on Egypt with our next-door neighbor who is a good neighbor. They're friends of mine, but they happened to build a dam which closed up water going into a thing called the Nile. I think if I'm Egypt, I want to have water in the Nile and we're working on that one. It's a problem, but it's going to get solved. They built one of the biggest dams in the world, a little bit outside of Egypt. You know about that. You've been hearing about that one and that turned out to be a big problem. I don't know. I think the United States funded the dam. I don't know why they didn't solve the problem before they built the dam, but it's nice when the Nile River has water. It's a very important source of income in life. It's the life of Egypt and to take that away is pretty incredible, but we think we're going to have that solved very quickly. So we do good. The only one we haven't been able to get to yet is Russia and I'm not happy. And I will tell you that Ukraine wants to do something. Again, it's a war that should have never started. If I were president, it never would have happened. I used to speak to President Putin about it a lot. It was the apple of his eye. But once I saw what was going on, I said, they're going to have a war here. I was outside. The election was rigged and I was outside looking in and I said, you know, that thing's going to be a war, couldn't believe it, because what Biden said was the exact opposite of what should have been said. And it started and it's a real mess. We're losing -- I guess they're losing 5,000 or 6,000 people a day. It's actually now more. I was saying 5,000 a day. It's actually more now, mostly soldiers, but a lot of people in cities and towns that are getting blown up. It's a horrible war and it should be stopped. And so if it's not done, if we don't have an agreement in 50 days, that's what we're doing, secondary tariffs and they're biting. And I hope we don't get to the point where we do. But I've been hearing so much talk. It's all talk. It's all talk and then missiles go into Kyiv and kill 60 people. It's got to stop. It's got to stop. But the purpose of this is to say that this is a very big deal we've made. This is billions of dollars' worth of military equipment is going to be purchased from the United States going to NATO, etc., and that's going to be quickly distributed to the battlefield. Ukraine will take it up. And say what you want about Ukraine. When the war started, they had no chance and they still would have had no chance if they had the best equipment, because we do make the best planes and missiles and we make the best military equipment in the world, by far. We have new things coming out that are beyond belief and I'm very excited about the Golden Dome. It's going to give us very strong protection. We've already started that. But they had courage because somebody has to use that equipment and they fought with tremendous courage and they continue to fight with tremendous courage, but they're losing on equipment. And Russia is really taking a very strong -- I mean what they've done the last couple of weeks --
Rutte: Without military [Inaudible] that's what they are doing, 700 drones a day, missiles, bombing cities. This is not because of military goals. It is just creating panic --
Trump: They're hitting towns.
Rutte: Keeping people out of their sleeps hitting towns. It's really terrible and it is meaning a lot of people lose their lives, but also the infrastructure, whole cities being destroyed.
Trump: They're wiping out the electric. It's going to take years to rebuild it. That's going to be the next problem, but that's going to take a long time. Many of the cities are knocked down to the ground. Many of the people have left, but many have stayed. I don't know. They actually stay and most have stayed, actually. It's incredible that they stay and knowing that a missile could be hitting your apartment house and your apartment house that you're sitting in could collapse on top of you, and they do very heavy construction. They don't use rebar. They do very thick concrete construction. So those are heavy buildings, big buildings and heavy buildings and they collapse like they're made out of paper. It's unbelievable to see this happening with so many people being killed. So we think we're going to make progress and we hope we're going to make progress. In the meantime, we're going to get you good service on what you need and we really became friendly with NATO this last meeting. You know, we went from two percent to five percent, which everyone said was not even a possibility. They weren't paying two percent. Many of them were paying much less than two percent.
Rutte: But even those since you became president, all committed to the two percent before the summit, and now collectively, we committed to the five percent.
Trump: That's right. They did. They've been very good. And I think I made a lot of friends over there. We had a couple of days of very intensive talks and they're great people. They're leaders of countries, leaders of countries, many of them great countries, some of them smaller countries. But for the most part, that's very solid, strong countries and very successful. Some of them are among the most successful countries in the world. So that's the story. We hope that's going to have an impact on Vladimir Putin and we hope it's going to have an impact on Ukraine also. We want to make sure that Ukraine does what they have to do. All of a sudden, they may feel emboldened and maybe they don't want -- this is a very difficult situation.
Rutte: Ukraine wants a peace deal.
Trump: I think so.
Rutte: And they will stay committed to that. There's no doubt they want it, but the Russians have to become serious.
Trump: They have to continue to want it though.
Rutte: Yeah, I agree. You and I will make sure of that.
Trump: All of a sudden, they get [Inaudible]
Rutte: You and I will make sure of that.
Trump: We'll make sure. I feel confident that they will do what has to be done. Plus, we have certain parameters that both sides know and we already know what should be done. So I think that's going to be -- it's going to be very strong. We want everlasting peace. Any Question: s, please? Yes.
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. What was the tipping point for you in making this decision? Was it a conversation with President Putin? Was it [Inaudible] intelligence? And why are you giving 50 more days?
Trump: Well, I think it's a very short period of time. I think, don't forget, I've just really been involved in this for not very long and it wasn't initial focus. Again, this is a Biden war. This is a Democrat war, not a Republican or Trump: war. This is a war that would have never happened. It shouldn't have happened. A lot of people being killed. When the final numbers come in, you're going to see a lot more people are being killed in this war than you think, than you've been writing about. It's a very deadly war. They're all bad, but this is a very deadly war. The numbers are going to be far greater. When an apartment house comes down and they say two people were slightly injured. No, many people were killed and those numbers will be at some point accurately reported. So far, they're not. It's a deadly war. I think that you're just going to see -- I think you're going to see strong movement. I hope so. I hope so. You know, the secondary tariffs are very, very powerful.
Question: What about the tariffs that the Republicans and the House and the Senate have, right? They have 500 percent. Why are you doing 100 percent?
Trump: Yeah, sure. Well, the Republicans are moving very strongly in the Senate, giving us total control of it, but I'm not sure we need it, but it's certainly good that they're doing it. And Lindsey Graham's working hard, John Thune, all of them. They're all working hard and they're in coordination with Mike Johnson, Speaker in the House. And I think they are -- they've actually crafted a pretty good piece of legislation. It's probably going to pass very easily, and that includes Democrats, and there are some little tweaks. But I don't want to say I don't need it because I don't want them to waste their time. It could be very useful. We'll have to see. But we can do secondary. We're probably talking about 100 percent or something like that. We can do secondary tariffs without the Senate, without the House, but what they're crafting also could be very good.
Question: So are you suggesting then that the Congress should move forward with those sanctions, the 500 percent and that your 100 will be a separate additional package?
Trump: Yeah, I mean the 500 is sort of meaningless after a while because at a certain point, it doesn't matter. It's not going to be -- 100 is going to serve the same function. But yeah, I have it at 100 percent. They may have it -- I don't know what they're going to end up with. They may have it at 100 too. They may have it at 500, but they're doing some good work in the House and I think -- in the House and the Senate. And as you know, they're coordinated. And they can have it done quickly. They said they'll have it as quickly as I need it, so we'll see. We're talking to them. In fact, John Thune is coming over later on to talk.
Question: [Inaudible]
Trump: Yeah, he's going to come over and talk.
Question: Mr. President, is it your view that Vladimir Putin [Inaudible] characterize his dedication?
Trump: What?
Question: Is it your view that Vladimir Putin misguided –
Trump: Did he misguide us?
Question: Did not clarify his intention to a peace?
Trump: Yeah, well –
Question: And what happens now in the next phase?
Trump: You're going to see. I mean, we're going to go for a period of time. Maybe he'll start negotiating. I think we felt, I felt, I don't know about you Mark, but I felt that we had a deal about four times and here we are still talking about making a deal.
Rutte: And he didn't send serious people to the negotiations. So I remember that you were able, with Marco Rubio and with Steve Witkoff, to get these talks going in Istanbul.
Trump: Yeah.
Rutte: I remember, I was, myself, in Turkey for NATO business in May and we really put pressure on the Ukrainians to send a senior team to Istanbul, and they did. But then the Russians came up with this historian, explaining history of Russia since 1250.
Trump: We thought and I thought we should have had a deal done a long time ago, but it just keeps going on and on and on. And every night, people are dying, a lot of people. A lot of Russian soldiers are dying, by the way, and a lot of Ukrainian soldiers do, but a lot of Russian soldiers are dying.
Rutte: 100,000 Russian soldiers since 1st of January, since January. 100,000 Russian soldiers dead since January. So if anybody in Moscow is listening to this, again, 100,000 dead Russians since January. This is what President Putin is doing at the moment.
Trump: Yeah, please.
Question: Will these be Patriot missiles specifically or Patriot batteries, that you're [Inaudible]
Trump: Everything, it's everything. It's Patriots, it's all of them. It's a full complement with the batteries. Yeah.
Question: And when do you expect them to arrive in Ukraine?
Trump: Well, we're going to have some come very soon, within days actually, because a couple of the countries that have patriots are going to swap over and we'll replace the Patriots with the ones they have. And Matt will coordinate with NATO. So it's going to be -- they're going to start arriving very soon.
Rutte: And this afternoon, Boris Pistorius, the German defense minister is visiting Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense and we'll discuss also I think on this whole Patriot thing. Norway is involved. So that's on the Patriots. But this whole deal is also about missiles or ammunition. So it's broader than Patriots.
Trump: We have one country that has 17 Patriots getting ready to be shipped. They're not going to need them for them. So we're going to work a deal where the 17 will go, or a big portion of the 17 will go to the war side and that could be done very quickly.
Question: Mr. President?
Trump: Yeah, please.
Question: Could this transaction with NATO be viewed as a step towards achieving peace, letting Putin know that now Zelenskyy has a little bit more powerful tools in his tool chest and maybe that brings him to the table to achieve peace? Because I know that you want to do that.
Trump: Yeah, Brian. That's what we've been saying. I think you might have expressed it better, if you want to know the truth. That's exactly what –
Rutte: That's a summary.
Trump: It was a nice summary. I think he's done better than us. He's a very good guy, I can tell you that. But no, it's well said. Yeah, I think this is uh a chance at getting peace, or it's just going to be the same thing. And I have to tell you, Europe has a lot of spirit for this war. A lot of people -- when I first got involved, I really didn't think they did, but they do. And I saw that a month ago and you were there, most of you, many of you were there. The level of esprit de corps, spirit that they have is amazing. They really think it's a very, very important thing to do or they wouldn't be doing. Look, they're agreeing to – just so you know, they're paying for everything. We're not paying anymore. We have an ocean separating us. I said we have a problem. We make the best stuff, but we can't keep doing this and Biden should have done this years ago. He should have done it from the beginning, but he didn't. He didn't know he was there. This guy, what a horrible job they did for this country and I just hope between the border and this and so many other -- inflation, what a horrible administration, the worst administration in history, in my opinion. It's not my opinion. I think it's everybody's opinion, but this is something that shouldn't have happened and we're going to see if we can end it.
Question: If I could just follow up?
Trump: I do want to make one statement though. Again, I said it before. This is not Trump's war. We're here to try and get it finished and settled and whatever because nobody wins with this -- this is a loser from every standpoint.
Rutte: But from day one –
Trump: This was Biden and this was other people and it's very sad. It's a very sad situation. This gentleman is doing a great job. I think he's going to get it and Matt and everybody else that's working on it, I think he'll get this thing over with hopefully.
Question: Mr. President, you've praised European countries today as standing up for Ukraine as being strong. Will you allow them to continue to negotiate tariffs lower than 30 percent before August 1st or is the deal set?
Trump: What does that mean? You mean you're talking about the tariffs?
Question: On trade, on tariffs.
Trump: Oh, you're back on tariffs. You're on a more friendly tariff, right, a little bit more friendly tariff. No, we're going to be talking to people. I watched the show this morning, they were talking about, well, when's he going to make the deal? The deals are already made. The letters are the deals. The deals are made. There are no deals to make. They would like to do a different kind of a deal and we're always open to talk. We are open to talk, including to Europe. In fact, they're coming over. They'd like to talk to us.
Question: Mr. President, is there any concern about the US stockpiles? There was a pause in delivery of weaponry to Ukraine in order to evaluate apparently US stockpiles. What came out of that –
Trump: Evaluation. I mean, this was a very big -- what we're talking about today is a very, very big day. And what Pete was doing, and me too, I knew what Pete was doing, was evaluation because we knew this was going to happen. And now we actually announced it. They voted on it, it's all been done. So obviously that has a big impact on -- when you say a pause, obviously you're not going to be doing things if you don't know what's going to happen here. But we were pretty sure this was going to happen, so we did a little bit of a pause, but this is a very big event today. This is something very big.
Question: Mr. President [Inaudible] escalates further, how far are you willing to go in response?
Trump: In what?
Question: How far are you willing to go if Putin were to escalate, send more bombs –
Trump: Don't ask me a Question: like that, how far. I don't know. I want to get the war settled. They're not Americans that are dying in it and I have a problem and JD has a problem, it's a stance that he's had for a long time. They're not Americans dying, but there are a lot of people dying and on something that should be able to be settled. And we all agree with that, this group of people. We want to defend our country, but ultimately, having a strong Europe is a very good thing. It's a very good thing. So I'm OK with that. Yeah, please, in the back.
Question: Mr. President [Inaudible] is there a ceiling on what the Europeans are willing to pay for it? And it sounds like, are you ruling out the US paying for some additional weapons to [Inaudible]
Rutte: Shall I try to answer?
Trump: Please. Yeah.
Rutte: Because basically, what the president is saying that he is willing -- of course, take into consideration what the US needs itself. So it's not that you can have a shopping list and you can order whatever you want because the US has to make sure that the US keeps its hands on what the US needs, also to keep the whole world safe because in the end, you are the police agent of the whole world. You are the most powerful nation on earth, the most powerful military on Earth. But given that, the US has decided to indeed massively supply Ukraine with what is necessary through NATO. Europeans are 100 percent paying for that. And what we have been doing over the last couple of days is talking with countries. And I just mentioned the ones who in the first wave immediately said we want to chip in, and then you are really talking about big numbers. Take Germany visiting today, they're really talking about big numbers.
Question: Can we get some clarity –
Trump: I will say that I spoke with Germany, spoke with most of the larger countries and they are really enthusiastic about this. And they're willing to go very far, I will tell you, as for your Question: how far would I go? They want to go very far. They don't want this to happen. That's why I think from Putin's standpoint, it would really be good if he gets -- The country's economy is doing very poorly and he's got to get his economy back. He's got to save his economy. He could save his country, in a sense, but the economy can destroy -- it's destroyed a lot of countries over the years. He wants to get that economy back. And he's got a great country for trading and other things. If they could use the assets instead of war, he's got some tremendous potential. That's what I would say.
Question: [Inaudible]
Trump: Say it.
Question: How did you tell Putin this was happening?
Trump: I speak to him a lot about getting this thing done and I always hang up and say, well, that was a nice phone call, and then missiles launched into Kyiv or some other city. And I said, it's strange. And after that happens three or four times, you say, the talk doesn't mean anything. My conversations with him are always very pleasant. I say, isn't that a very lovely conversation, and then the missiles go off that night. I go home, I tell the First Lady, you know, I spoke to Vladimir today, we had a wonderful conversation. She said, oh, really, another city was just hit. So it's like, look, he's -- I don't want to say he's an assassin, but he's a tough guy. It's been proven over the years. He's fooled a lot of people. He fooled Bush. He fooled a lot of people. He fooled Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden. He didn't fool me. But what I do say is that at a certain point, you know, ultimately talk doesn't talk. It's got to be action. It's got to be results and I hope he does it. It's potentially such a great country to be wasting so many people on -- on this and the money. And look at what's happened to his economy, look at what's happened.
Rutte: And there was a threat in 50 days.
Trump: Yeah.
Rutte: And we will be hit very hard.
Trump: It's –
Question: [Inaudible]
Trump: I mean, look, I hope he's -- I hope he's going to do it. He knows the deal. He knows what a fair deal is. If there is such a thing as a fair deal. They can -- no -- there's no winners here. This is a loser. This is a loser. And I dealt with him from the beginning. It wouldn't have happened. But I will say it was -- Ukraine was the apple of his eye. We talk about it. It was the apple of his eye, but it wasn't going to happen. And he understood that. It wasn't going to happen. And then I noticed, after I was out, I noticed soldiers forming at the border.
Rutte: Yeah.
Trump: And then I heard horrible, stupid things being said from the other side. And I said they're really handling it very, very wrong. It's a shame, yeah.
Rutte: Can I -- can I -- can I add one thing. And that is about President Trump, because you came to office in January on the 12th of February, you had your first phone call with Putin. I think you did exactly what I hoped you would do. That is breaking the deadlock, starting the conversation. Because you have to test him. I know Putin very well from the days I was prime minister. In the Netherlands, you have to test it. And you did this. And you really gave him a chance to be serious to get to the table to start negotiations. Steve Witkoff, Marco Rubio, we all try to help you. But you've now come to a point where you say, well, hey, you know, you have to -- you have to get serious.
Trump: We actually thought we had probably four times the deal.
Rutte: Yeah.
Trump: I mean you, you were called and you said –
Rutte: Yeah. Yeah.
Trump: This looks good.
Rutte: Yeah.
Trump: And then the deal wouldn't happen because bombs would be thrown out that night. And you'd say we're not making any deals. It was like –
Rutte: But you're breaking the deadlock was crucial because you have to start that process. And you were the only one who was able to do that.
Trump: I think we'll get it done.
Question: Do you think he's reasonable enough to negotiate?
Trump: Yeah, I think we're going to get it done. I think, look, he -- he, uh, this is a very powerful situation. You have very wealthy countries buying the best equipment in the world. And we have the best equipment in the world. We make equipment like no other. You know, our submarines, nuclear submarines are so powerful, their the most powerful weapon ever built. And we have the best in the world by -- they're 20 years behind 25 years behind us. We have the greatest equipment anywhere in the world. I just hope we don't have to use it. Yeah, please.
Question: Thank you, Mr. President. Um, on a separate topic here. Uh, President Biden, of all people, spoke to the New York Times over the weekend. He did not speak to them on the record during his time in office, at all [Inaudible]. And he defended his use of the autopen. And said that he signed off on every decision. But at the same time, the Times reports that he did not individually approve each name for the categorical pardons that was applied to large numbers of people. What are your -- take on that? Any new revelations from that?
Trump: Well, I mean, you're talking about the autopen. Look, the autopen, I think, is maybe one of the biggest scandals that we've had in 50 to 100 years. This is a tremendous scandal. And I know the people on the other side of the -- oh, see that desk, that resolute desk? Unfortunately, he used it before me, but. You know we have our choice of seven desks. They're all beautiful, but I chose the resolute, and so did he, unfortunately. But the people on the other side of the Resolute Desk, I know them. Lisa, the whole group, and they're no good. They're sick people. And I guarantee he knew nothing about what he was signing. I guarantee it. So they're going to figure it out. And we'll see what happens. But to me, the autopen, you know, you elected a president -- do you know what the autopen is supposed to do? Sign thousands of letters from young people that write. I get -- we get thousands of letters a week, Susie, right, thousands. And tens of thousands, sometimes. I look in a room, there's a room where we have many, many people working, responding and sending letters back. That's what an autopen is supposed to be to write to a young seven year old boy that writes to the president. And he wants to be president someday. And he loves America. That's what the autopen is supposed to be. It's not supposed to be for signing major legislation and all the things. No. The autopen -- And I doubt he knew. I doubt -- I doubt they even spoke to him about it. I think they had a -- it's called a freewheeling autopen. Like Biden was never for open borders. Biden was never for transgender for everyone. So I don't think he -- I think the radical left people that took -- they took over the White House. And if I didn't win, our country was finished. You know, when I was in, and I said this a couple of times, I hope I don't bore you with it, but when I was in Saudi Arabia, I was in Qatar, I was in UAE. And then I met with all of your leaders.
Rutte: Yes.
Trump: Including you, a great leader. He's now the leader of many countries, not just –
Rutte: No, no, no, no. [Laughter]
Trump: But -- but I met with a lot of leaders over the last two months in the Middle East.
Rutte: Yeah, [Inaudible]
Trump: And all the NATO, all of the NATO countries.
Rutte: Yeah.
Trump: And I will tell you, they had one common phrase. They thought America was dead one year ago. And today, they say, and they all say it and I hope, I hope you'll back me up in this.
Rutte: Um-hum.
Trump: But they say now it's the hottest country anywhere in the world. And it is. Look at our numbers. Look at the numbers we made. Did you see we made $25 billion last month. We don't -- we didn't make that for years. The tariffs are kicking in. The economy is very strong. Even though we have a Fed person who's terrible, he doesn't know what the hell he's doing, but that's all right. We blew -- we blow through interest rates. We're doing so well, we blow through it. It would be nice because people would be able to buy housing a lot easier. But uh, think of it, we thought your country was dead. And they were dealing with China because they really -- they were really going to China but not anymore. But we thought your country was dead and now you have the hottest country anywhere in the world. So we've -- we've done a really good job. And uh, it's an honor to have this man. This man is a star. And he's going to be dealing with another one of my stars, Matt. And you're going to do a great job, Matt Whitaker, okay?
Rutte: [Inaudible]
Trump: Thank you very much everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Thank you.