TRANSCRIPT: On The Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell, Leader Schumer Discusses Republican Disarray As They Struggle With Their Disastrous “Big, Ugly Betrayal”

Washington, D.C. – Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) today spoke with Lawrence O'Donnell on The Last Word to discuss how Democrats are standing strong as Republicans fall apart over the “Big, Ugly Betrayal.” Below are Senator Schumer’s remarks:

Lawrence O'Donnell: Senator Schumer, thank you very much for joining us. I know you have to be running back onto the floor. Senator, I'd like to just get the state of play as of this hour. It seems from where I'm sitting, is it possible that the Republicans are actually slowing things down a bit on the Senate floor tonight? And if they are, why?

Leader Schumer: They're slowing things down because right now they're one big mess. They've made a lot of promises, contradictory promises to different parts of their caucus. A lot of people are squirming because they know how unpopular what Trump calls the “Big, Beautiful Bill,” we call the “Big, Ugly Betrayal” is, they're squirming. They know the public doesn't like it. What Tillis has said out loud, I'd say a majority of senators, Republican senators believe that this bill is very bad for their states, but they don't have the guts to buck Trump. They're afraid of Trump. They're in an uncomfortable position. They're fighting with each other and they're slowing everything down because they don't have a bill yet. At this late hour, they still don't have a bill.

O'Donnell: Senator, I've counted in my count three Republican senators who have voted with you on some of these amendments. Senators Collins, Murkowski and Sullivan of Alaska. You add Thom Tillis and Rand Paul, who are declared opponents of the bill at the vote in the end. I mean, I’m not the vote counter you are, I don't know if they have the votes as of right now to pass this bill.

Schumer: Well, let me tell you, the way it works is if they had the votes, they'd be putting their bill on the floor. They are not. They're extending things every time we have a vote. They don't call the vote, even though we're supposed to do it after 10 or 15 minutes. And that's because they don't have the votes right now because their caucus is in disarray, fighting with each other and trying to shove down America's throat a deeply unpopular bill that in one sentence, the first amendment I did, said: we cannot cut taxes for billionaires if we cut a penny of Medicaid. They hated that because in sum what their bill does in a sentence is have billionaires win and have families lose, taking money away from health care, taking food out of the mouth of hungry children to give a greater tax break to billionaires. I don't have anything against them, but they don't need a tax break, especially when it comes at the expense of hardworking people who are going to be hurt. We estimate that this bill could cause two million jobs to be lost in America, over a million in health care, 850,000 in clean energy, which they gutted. That could create a recession. Rural hospitals, as you mentioned earlier in the show, are going to be clobbered. Most of those are in Republican areas. They're the only source of health care in these rural communities by and large. They're the largest employer. On clean energy, when we need new clean energy and solar is the quickest way to get energy, the cheapest way to get new energy, which you're all going to need because AI is going to suck up so much of it. They're opposed to that because they're in the throes of the billionaires who believe in fossil fuels as a religion and they know that they're on the way out and clean energy is in. So in place after place, the bill really is lousy and they know that we have made it clear. We Democrats are on our front foot, give an amendment after amendment after amendment. They're squirming.

O'Donnell: Senator, I know that one of the points of these amendments, if they don't prevail tonight and change the bill tonight, these votes you intend to use, Senators intend to use in Senate campaigns next year. That's part of what's happening here tonight as you're forcing these Republican senators – especially the ones up for reelection – to cast votes either for or against their constituents. You're inviting them to cast votes in favor of their constituents, but it seems like so far they are casting votes against, certainly the healthcare interests, of their constituents.

Schumer: I said on the floor to all the Republicans, I said, ‘Have a backbone, side with your constituents and not with Donald Trump.’ And so of course we'll use these in elections. But the number one reason we're fighting is it's just so bad for the American people. I don't want to see 51,000 people, it's estimated will die because their healthcare is taken away. Can you imagine a mom who has a nine year old daughter with cancer and now she doesn't have health care and she knows that daughter could well die? This is disgusting.

And they're not even doing it for a good rationale. They're doing it for a selfish, rotten rationale, tax cuts for the billionaires. It's crazy. And that's what Trump wants. And they bow in obeisance to them, even though most of them know it's wrong. Not all of them. Some are MAGA, you know, ideologues way out there on the right. But most of these senators know what's happening is wrong for the American people. But there's so, as Lisa Murkowski said, there's a lot of fear out there in the Republican caucus. They're so afraid of Trump and his retribution. They're doing something that is certainly going to harm them with the public both now and in the elections.

O'Donnell: Senator, I know you always hear, we always hear, every Republican candidate for Senate, anywhere in the United States, always running against the national debt, most of them promising to bring the national debt down to zero sometime in the six years of their term in the Senate, if they get elected. How did this bill end up increasing the national debt way more than the House bill?

Schumer: By some, by some nasty, clever paperwork where they said cutting taxes for billionaires isn't going to cost anything. Well, of course it does. And the Treasury is going to be three point five trillion dollars with greater debt. And what is it going to mean? This is not an abstract concept. You know what it's going to mean? It's going to raise interest rates significantly. It's going to cost Americans more to buy a house, buy a car, credit card debt every way. And these guys are hypocrites. They're all for reducing the debt when it comes to feeding poor kids or providing health care or helping us with green energy or education. But when it comes to cutting taxes for the billionaires, they don't give a damn about the debt.

O'Donnell: Senator Chuck Schumer, thank you very much for joining us. I know you have to get back to the Senate floor. Really appreciate you giving us the time.

###