TRANSCRIPT: Leader Schumer Joins Dr. Mike On “The Checkup” Podcast To Discuss Rising Healthcare Costs And The Republican Shutdown

New York, N.Y. – Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) joined Dr. Mike on his podcast, “The Checkup,” to discuss the Trump Republican shutdown, and set the record straight on rising costs and unaffordable healthcare. The podcast is available here and on YouTube.

Dr. Mike: I'll stay here for you. Thanks for coming on the Checkup Podcast.

Leader Schumer: Mike, I couldn't think of a better place to be. And I know how strongly you went forth for health care. But we had some successful battles together. There are EpiPens on airplanes, every airplane because of us. We have more doctor slots because we're so short of doctors, especially primary care. And we did those fights together. And now I'm involved in another health care battle, a very important one.

Mike: Yeah, so for viewers that might be confused why we're having this conversation on the Checkup Podcast, it is because health care has become the main reason for why the stalemate exists, why the government shutdown exists. And I want for us to have a conversation today that is not MSNBC, CNN, just transparent, honest about what's happening. Because people are frustrated, Senator. They're confused. They don't know what a government shutdown is, why it's happening. So hopefully we can tackle some of that today.

Schumer: Great, terrific, love to.

Mike: Well, let's kick it off. The government is currently shut down going into week three. What does a government shutdown even mean? Because when I ask my patients, my friends, my loved ones, they say it, they say, oh, some essential things are happening, but some are not, some are not getting paid. So what's happening?

Schumer: So like a company, a government has a budget. Our budget expires September 30th, okay? And what has always happened in the past is that the Democrats and Republicans, because you need both in the Senate unless one side has enough, 60 votes, we sit down and negotiate. This time they didn't do that. The Republicans said, take it or leave it. And we, the Democrats, we felt that health, what's happening in healthcare, that the healthcare crisis is upon us and Americans are going to have so many, tens of millions of Americans and families are going to feel such pain. And we said, we want to negotiate to address the healthcare crisis. So they said, no. What's the consequence? I'll get into all of the details as to why they said no, what we will, and most important, what we're fighting for. But what it means is that the government doesn't have money to spend. Essential services continue and the people work. They don't get paid, but they get paid. Everyone who is working or not gets back pay at the end. So no one loses any money, but it's hard.

Mike: Of course, yeah.

Schumer: We hate the shutdown. That's why we want the Republicans to simply sit down and meet with us. So essential services, the military, law enforcement, air traffic control, they continue to work without pay. Some other people are furloughed and they come back when the shutdown is over. And then they, you know, what the Trump administration, they've done something no person, no president has tried during the shutdown, shutdowns to fire people, but that's illegal. And they've been doing that all along, shutdown or not, they take agencies and they illegally fire them. In most instances, those who were fired in their groups, unions or whatever, go to court and win, but they are using the shutdown as a pretext in that regard as well.

Mike: And when these specific essential workers that are not getting paid, they get backpay. How has President Trump funded some of their pay? Cause he wanted to make sure some groups can communicate.

Schumer: Right, so he funded the military with $8 billion. He took research dollars out of the defense department and put it into pay. Now that's probably not legal because Congress allocated the money in one place and the constitution says the president can't just unilaterally move it without Congress is okay. But he's been doing a lot of illegal acts to enforce what he wants. Everyone wants the military to get paid. Of course, we need them. They risk their lives for us, they're just great. But the way to do that, the real answer is for the Republicans to end the shutdown by sitting down and talking to us. This is unprecedented.

Mike: So are they not talking to you?

Schumer: Not at all, but listen to this. So when we saw how they decimated healthcare in June in their so-called big beautiful bill, we call the big ugly bill. And by the way, Donald Trump said, we better change the name because it's not very popular. They thought it would be more popular than it was, but the way they slashed lots of things, not just healthcare, but energy costs, your electricity bills are gonna go up dramatically because of what they did. Cause they eliminated some of the best forms of producing energy, clean energy, wind, solar. But healthcare in particular, we said to the Republicans way in advance, let's sit down and negotiate. And we started in July and Thune and Johnson, these are the two Republican leaders in the Senate and the House, said no. And we wondered why. And then in late August, early September, I don't remember exactly when Trump said, we don't need the Democrats. Well, of course they do cause he needs 60 votes in the Senate and they got 53. I was wondering what his math was like. And so they didn't try to negotiate. Finally, we did get Trump to sit down with us. We asked Trump to sit down with us. Once we found out that the two of them wouldn't do it cause of Trump, we asked them to sit down with us. We asked Trump to sit down with us. He said, yes. And then the next day you may remember, he said, no, cause Johnson said don't do it. But he finally did the day before, but it was too late and he didn't have a serious vote.

Mike: What happened during that meeting? That was in the Oval Office?

Schumer: It was in the Oval Office. And he saw, well, two interesting things happened. First, he didn't take it that seriously. He was playing his games. He put these Make America Great red hats on the desk. Of course we didn't put them on.

Mike: Oh, he was recommending that you wear them.

Schumer: He didn't say that, but he put the, he had some income over and put them on the desk. All of that and all of that. But here's the interesting thing. When he told them, when we told him how bad this crisis was, how people's healthcare costs would dramatically rise so they'd have to lose healthcare, he said, that's gonna be bad for me. I think it was the first time by his body language, et cetera that he realized how bad the crisis would be. And it's, you know, he's gonna, he is going to see that more and more and more because we can get into this. Over this month, people are getting from their insurance companies notices of how much their premiums will go up. I just make one other point, if I might.

Mike: Please.

Schumer: When I was majority leader, we had no shutdowns. We did 13 different budgets. Why did we have shutdowns? Because I sat down with the Republicans and I said, look, no one's gonna get everything they want. Let's come together and make an agreement. That's how budgets are passed. And that's what happened. Trump is the first time with the Republican leaders, unfortunately. In the old days, if a president said that, some of the Republican leaders would have the backbone to say, no, we gotta do this, this, that. But they went along with Trump. So the reason we have a shutdown is they won't negotiate with us. And it's common sense when you have two sides that each need something.

Mike: So in reflecting on that, do you feel that the Republicans have been more successful this time around? That perhaps maybe you should have held firm and had a shutdown during your course?

Schumer: The number one reason we are not doing this, we are not, the number one reason we feel so strongly about healthcare is because it's decimating. Let me give you some details.

Mike: Yeah, when we say decimating healthcare, what will actually play out?

Schumer: So they slashed Medicaid by a trillion dollars. What does that mean? First, it means rural hospitals all across the country, mainly in Republican states and districts are gonna close. Some are closed already because so many of these hospitals depend on Medicaid. For many counties, like including in some of my counties in upstate New York, they're the only hospital. And they're the largest employer. Second, this applies to lots of your audience who I know tend to be young folks. The parents who were in nursing homes are gonna get kicked out. I was at Silver Lake Nursing Home on Staten Island where I know your dad lives. The owner told me if these cuts go through, all 300 patients, many of whom are Staten Islanders, are gonna have to leave because I have to close. I'm 70, 80% Medicaid because Medicaid pays for the people in the nursing homes. Where are they gonna go? A lot of the kids here don't have an extra room to put them in. They did, as you know, as a doctor, they can't provide the kind of healthcare they need. Even more devastating is how premiums will rise. In other words, we wanna just renew the tax credits that have existed for a while on your ACA, your Affordable Care Act raised for Obamacare. If they are not renewed, we asked the Republicans three times, we put votes on the floor, and three times they voted no, unfortunately. Here's what will happen. The average American who's on ACA will pay 500 to $1,000 more a month, not a year, a month. That's 6,000, 10,000 a year.

Mike: That's budget breaking for most families.

Schumer: Exactly, that's the problem. They're gonna sit at the table Friday night and get their new, their insurance company's new proposals, they get them this month, by October 31st, every state requires the insurance companies to send it out, I believe, just about every state. And you'll see, it'll be devastating. For older people, it's even worse. A couple making 50, a couple that's 55 years old, two people 55, who makes like 85,000 a year, which is not that much, particularly with two people working, making 40 or 45 each, $25,000 increase. So these people, and they're starting to get the notices. You see, the people didn't start getting notices till October 1st, and about 12 states have gotten the notices so far, but it's gonna be every state by October 31st. What are they gonna do? It's like a punch, an economic punch in the stomach. I have two kids. I can't afford $15,000 more a year. I only make 60,000, 70,000. Am I gonna have no health insurance? What am I gonna do if my kid gets sick? What am I gonna do in these situations? So this is one of the most severe and devastating cuts in healthcare that we have ever had. And we feel an obligation to represent the American people in this trauma. And even if you don't have, your Medicare will go up because of deficits. If you have Medicaid, you're in real trouble, of course. And it's not just poor people, and I believe in helping poor people, of course, but it's middle class people too because nursing homes and stuff. But even if you have neither Medicare nor Medicaid nor ACA, your premium's gonna go up a lot because the insurance companies have to make up the money they're losing somewhere else. So this is gonna be one probably, certainly the worst crisis in healthcare for as long as I can remember.

Dr. Mike: I think the reason why our channel is successful is because we try and see people who disagree with us their side of things.

Schumer: Yes, good idea.

Mike: When I sat surrounded by those who were anti-vaccine, I had a debate against 20 individuals. I wanted to hear them out. I wanted to understand where they were coming from. What's your understanding as to why the Republican leadership is okay with making these cuts? What is their plan?

Schumer: They say we'll have a plan, but they don't say what it is. But for so many of them, they've hated this from the beginning. Many of them opposed Medicare and Medicaid when they started in the 60s. Before the 1960s, we didn't have healthcare in, much healthcare in America, you're on your own. Every Western country had it. There was an outcry and under Lyndon Johnson, we had Medicare and Medicaid and we've advanced it and made it better and better and better, making it easier for people to afford their healthcare. But a large group of Republicans have never wanted to do it and it's these MAGA right-wingers. And they just hate having the government involved in helping people. The average person without health insurance, without Medicare, without Medicaid can't afford it, period. It's gotten, as you know, more expensive now because, and look, it's not a perfect system at all. I mean -

Mike: It's far from a perfect system.

Schumer: It's far from a perfect, but people are living longer and healthier because they have the resources to get the kind of medical care that you and millions of other doctors and healthcare professionals give them. So here's the horrible thing. They would rather not negotiate with us and shut down the government than provide this healthcare. It's almost a religion to some of them and it's horrible, but they're against the American people. Here's an interesting little poll statistic. I don't usually like to cite these polls. Extending these ACA premiums, which will dramatically cause the rates to rise for everyone that they can't afford it or they have to sit down and say, oh God, I'll have to really cut back. I can't go to the doctor or hospital I want to go to. I have to pay much more in copays and deductibles.

Mike: Which is devastating because then the emergency room becomes primary care. Emergency rooms lose money. They close. People can't get care. It's bad for everyone.

Schumer: It's happening already. Emergency rooms are closing. Community health centers, which as you know, are the cheaper way because it's not a big hospital. It's like a drop-in clinic. They're closing left and right. It's terrible. And so this is just something we feel we are doing our job and representing the American people. And what I was telling you was, so extending the ACA credits, over 90% of Americans want it. But here's sort of the interesting thing. 55% of the people who voted for Trump, so they're hardly bleeding heart liberals, want it, want it extended. So the Republicans are misreading how bad this is. But day by day, more and more people are getting these notices. By October 31st, everyone who has any health insurance will be getting these notices. And it's already, when I go out around my state and other states, this is what people are talking about. And it's gonna, people, you know, our hope is, and more than hope, our belief is, strong belief, that this is so bad that people, Democrat, Republican, Independent, will go to their Congressmen and Senators and say, fix it, this is a crisis for me and my family. And I think that will happen. It'll take a little bit longer, but as more of these notices come out, and here's the one other thing. On November 1st, you gotta make your decision, starting November 1st. Do I eliminate healthcare for my family? Pay more, as we talked about, more deductibles, more co-pays, what am I doing? So we gotta move fairly quickly.

Mike: Yeah, there's been a heavy sticking point for the Republicans surrounding care for, healthcare for illegal immigrants. They've said that time and time again, and I'm gonna play it out how I've experienced the information coming at me, and I'd love for you to reflect on it. Initially, it was Mike Johnson coming out and saying, we don't want illegal immigrants to get funding dollars from these ACA subsidies. On the flip side, you come out and say, that's illegal. We do not provide Medicare, ACA subsidies to those who are here illegally. And they say, well, yes, but if they use the emergency room, or if they get some kind of protected status, that bypasses those rules that you're saying. Is my understanding correct? And what else am I missing?

Schumer: Okay, number one, this bill, what we're fighting for is healthcare insurance. Medicare, Medicaid, ACA, not one dollar, not one effing dollar can go to an undocumented immigrant. That's the law, and they haven't shown a single situation where it happens, and maybe they can find something by accident or something.

Mike: I believe it was KFF said something like 1% of that budget will go to getting healthcare for illegal undocumented individuals, because if they end up in the ER, for a really rational reason, because you're not gonna ask for someone's immigration status when they're having a heart attack, because you won't get that answer, especially if they're unconscious. So based on our rules that we have, the EMTLA, we have to treat everyone in the ER.

Schumer: And your Hippocratic oath

Mike: And Hippocratic oath, We would treat those patients, and some of the spending from that budget would go there. Is that true or no?

Schumer: No, here is the, it's, let me just modify what you said. Someone, this is a law that's passed in 1986, signed by Ronald Reagan, because people were being turned down from nursing homes, mainly American citizens, I mean, not nursing homes, from hospitals and emergency rooms who said you don't have insurance, go somewhere else, and they die. So this has always had bipartisan support that people show up in emergency rooms, in real emergencies. A real answer here, we shouldn't have people go into emergency rooms, unless it's a real emergency. And that's why these community health clinics and these rural hospitals are so important, and you shut those down, it's gonna have more people go to emergency rooms for non-emergency situations. And so, when someone shows up, American citizen or otherwise, in this emergency room, and they don't have insurance, different people have, different hospitals have different ways of paying for it. Some pay for it by different programs, okay? Some pay for it by state and local, and a lot of them pay for it by charity.

Mike: Yeah, we have a charity care system where I work.

Schumer: Exactly, so that's what happens here. And this idea that illegal immigrants are getting this money is crazy, crazy. You know, I can't.

Mike: Are any of those three programs that you mentioned part of the spending bill that's currently holding?

Schumer: No, that's the point here. Whatever they wanna say about this 1986 law, or 1968 law, maybe they wanna change it, has nothing to do with the debate we're in. And I wanna say, nothing, again, no Medicare, no insurance, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no ACA, goes to illegal immigrants, illegal immigrants, period, why are they doing this? It's because they always try to divert attention away from the real issue.

Mike: No, that's politics in general. It's hard to say they them.

Schumer: This is serious, this is so serious. It's always politics in general.

Mike: And depending on which party you ask, they'll say this is serious for us. We believe our budget is so bad that this is serious.

Schumer: I'll let the American people decide.

Mike: Oh, for sure, yeah.

Schumer: And they are totally, I mean, 68% of the people are on our side on this issue, 40% of Republicans are on our side, and they're on our side not because it's Democrat, Republican, not because it's a political fight, they don't give a hoot about politics. They're facing these devastating decisions they have to make. Ahead of a rural hospital, should I close my rural hospital? Ahead of Silver Lake Nursing Home on Staten Island, and many others, should I close my nursing home? And then, of course, the tens of millions of Americans are gonna have to make the decision as to whether they pay more. So the bottom line is they always try to come up with a subterfuge, a diversionary issue that has nothing to do with what we're debating and discussing. And here's just a little, this is a little political insider so just shut me off. The real roadblock here is Johnson, okay? Not Thune, although he's not been helpful, but he hasn't been. Johnson is in a true pickle for two reasons. Number one, about half his caucus doesn't want any ACA extension. Scalise just got up and said that. That's his number two guy from Louisiana also. So they don't want it. But he's got 50 people in his caucus who very much want it, and they're the ones who were most vulnerable in the reelection. Everyone, you know, they wanna keep the House Republican. We wanna see the House go Democratic under Hakeem Jeffries. And so he’s stuck. So his decision, what he thought, he would pass a bill without talking to us that didn't address this issue at all and jam us. And in the House, he can do it because he doesn't need Democratic votes, but in the Senate, he does. And they thought they could barrel us into just saying yes. We have found the American people, our constituents, the people we're supposed to help, feel so strongly and are hurt so badly on this that we said we wanna negotiate, and they wouldn't. And they'd rather shut down the government than help these people. It's just crazy. Yeah, and it's because of the political pickle that Johnson is in. What's the way out of it? Trump. Trump, you know, he's pretty good at the politics of all this, as much as I despise so much of what he's done with his politics. I mean, I worry about our democracy, but that's a different subject when I get to that today. But Trump has, when Trump backs Johnson, Johnson usually then backs off, and Trump is seeing how bad this is for him politically. The two best Republican pollsters, guy named Fabrizio and guy named, I think it's McLaughlin, I forgot his, I just wanna emcee something, they both said that Republicans will lose the House and lose the Senate if they don't change this because it's the most devastating consequence to American people that we've had in a very long time.

Mike: Why, you've made unpopular decisions before.

Schumer: Sure.

Mike: That you felt were right.

Schumer: Yes.

Mike: You made your speech on Israel, which some people disagreed with. You chose not to shut down the government earlier in the year.

Schumer: On the speech on Israel, I've criticized Netanyahu for the very reasons now that other people have criticized.

Mike: I'm just giving a couple of-

Schumer: I thought it was the right thing to do.

Mike: Yeah, so you follow your heart.

Schumer: Yes.

Mike: Why is it so important on this issue to follow your heart?

Schumer: 51,000 people will die at minimum if we don't change the law. If we don’t renew the ACA, tens of millions of Americans will have, the biggest issue, you ask the average American family, what bothers you the most? It's nothing political, it's costs. It's how much—

Mike: Practicality.

Schumer: Practicality, but how each week with my income of X do I buy all the things and have all the things I need? Right? And it's gone way up. It's probably the reason Biden lost the election. They called it inflation, and now we call it cost, the same thing. And now, Trump is in worse shape on that issue than Biden was when Biden lost the election. In part because of the tariffs, they've raised costs. In part because of what they did on energy, that's what I'm talking about. But the number one reason is healthcare. And so, the bottom line is, I felt it imperative to do something about this. When you talk to a mother and she says, my daughter has cancer, and she's gonna lose her treatment, and the research, the groundbreaking research has been cut off because they cut off NIH, something you know better than anybody. My daughter's gonna die. That's a moral imperative, not a political imperative, a moral imperative to do something about it. So I felt this was the right thing to do. And the good news is, virtually my whole democratic caucus, from the most liberal to the most conservative, feel the same way. But most important, it's not my caucus. It's the American people. I mean, 2 1 3rds of these cuts are gonna be in red states and red districts, I don't care. And you know, some people say, don't get this done and it'll be good for us politically. It's too important to get this done because so many people will suffer and thousands and thousands will die.

Mike: Thinking from the Republican side of things, Thune yesterday offered you to buy some time and allowing these ACA subsidies to continue temporarily so that we can reopen the government. Tell me about that.

Schumer: He didn't offer it to me.

Mike: Who did he offer it to?

Schumer: Nobody that I know. He was supposed to offer it to me. But he didn't offer it. He said he might do it. But he said, first, he wanted us to just go along and not negotiate, do what they want, you know. And then second, maybe we negotiate and we see what it is. We need to sit down, the four of us, that's how this has always been done, Jeffries and me on the Democratic side, Thune and Johnson on the Republican side, and negotiate something that addresses this issue. Will we get everything we want? No. Will they get everything they want? No. But that's how it's supposed to work. Thune talked to the press, but there was nothing real and he never talked to me about that and didn't have any concrete proposal either. It was just sort of in the hallway.

Mike: Yeah. Given that you're saying you believe Johnson is leading the real issue here and that President Trump would be on par with this, we're Brooklyn guys, Trump's a New Yorker, I guess, sort of. You have your flip phone. What's stopping you from calling him up directly and talking about it?

Schumer: Look, when I met with him, when Hakeem and I said, Mr. President, when you're ready to sit down and talk with either the two of us or better, the four of us, the four leaders, we're ready to do it, he hasn't yet. Now he's had his things, he's had his negotiations in the Middle East and he's doing this with Zelensky. But I believe that the American people as days go on and we get closer and closer to October 31st, will make it so clear that they want this, that Trump, I think there's a good strong likelihood that Trump goes to Johnson and said, let's stop this problem, it's very bad. He'll say politically, I don't know how much he cares about everybody or the people, but he'll think that.

Mike: The average person listening or watching will see the President of France Macron call President Trump on his cell phone to cross the street. But you won't call him to talk about this?

Schumer: Well, if I thought he'd have a serious negotiation, I would.

Mike: And you don't think he will?

Schumer: I think he will, at the right moment, yes.

Mike: So you're waiting for the right moment to have that conversation?

Schumer: Well, yes, we have to have the right moment. If I were to call up and he'd just call me names, which he does, it doesn't bother me.

Mike: But you guys have a kind of a cordial relationship when you see each other there’s smiles and changes.

Schumer: I'd say we have a New York, we have a Brooklyn-Queens relationship.

Mike: Okay, that's fair. Okay. How long does this go on?

Schumer: Well, look, this Republican shutdown, we hope will end soon. And we hope it's because, as I said repeatedly, but I believe that this is my job. My job is to represent the people of my state and every senator and every congressman, the people of their communities. And I believe that every day, more and more people are seeing, you know, all that. On October 1st, very few people saw how devastating the crisis would be. But in the 12 states, for instance, there was some article in one of the papers today, in the 12 states where they've gotten a notice, there's a groundswell. By October 31st, all the states will get the notice. And I believe the pressure on the Republicans, particularly a lot of the Republicans who are not MAGA, and they'll say, save us, we're gonna lose our seats. If you don't do this, we'll bring the Republicans to the table, negotiate, and we can get something good done.

Mike: It's so frustrating as an individual listening to a conversation like this, probably, because it seems like everyone in politics is making these decisions based on mounting pressure, based on reelection campaigns, as opposed to what's truly right or moral.

Schumer: I'm making it because I hear, and I think my colleagues are making it, the bottom line, we hear the anguish of people. That's my number one motivation. Now I find, you know, Abe Lincoln said public sentiment is everything, which means the people ought to decide, and they ultimately do. We still have the vestiges of democracy, despite Trump trying to undo parts of it. And I believe that will happen, I do. And my motivation, my sole motivation, is to prevent this awful crisis from happening. I don't wanna go down the street and have people telling me how bad this is, and they don't know what they're gonna do, and how are they gonna deal with their parents, or how are they gonna deal with their child. Healthcare is probably the most important thing to the American people, all the things the government does. And it's at risk, as I said, since the 60s, we have built up a healthcare system. Is it perfect? Far from it. But is it a lot better than it was when you couldn't get any insurance, and people were just, you know, and the life expectancy was whatever, if you would know the number better than me, but much lower than it is now. And to undo that, and turn the clock back, I believe I would be not fulfilling my responsibility to my constituents when I see that mom talking about her daughter dying. When I see that middle class family saying, what am I gonna do with my 82-year-old mother who needs help in a nursing home? When I talk to medical researchers, and they say, we're on the verge of coming through with a breakthrough on Alzheimer's, or pancreatic cancer, or these things you know better than me, and now it's cut off, I'm motivated to act. And I've always felt, I think I've said this to you before, the higher you climb in politics, the fiercer the winds blow. So when you're a senator or a congressman, the winds blow pretty fierce. If you stick to your own internal gyroscope, and my internal gyroscope says, help the people, do what the people want and need, that's the way you go, that's what I've always done. And as you've said, sometimes it's unpopular. In this case, not only is it the right thing to do, but it's helping people and people every day, every day, more and more people get these notices, more and more people hear their nursing home is closing, more and more people hear their rural hospital is closing.

Mike: 1 to 10, if you can give me the number first before you answer, how worried are you that the Republicans will use the nuclear option to remove the supermajority on this?

Schumer: Well.

Mike: Number first.

Schumer: Low.

Mike: Okay. They've done it with judicial nominees.

Schumer: They've done it in a few instances, but removing it altogether would be a huge deal. And you know, I have a lot of friends on the Republican side, and there's a, I don't think they could even get the number of votes to do it. I think there are a good number of Republicans who say that would undo the whole bulwark of the Senate. And so I think, I don't think Thune wants to do it. Sometimes he's pushed to do things and he too often goes along with what he's pushed to do, even if he knows it's wrong. But in this case, I think there's a pretty deep feeling among the Republican senators not to do it.

Mike: Why were they comfortable doing you with the forty or so-judicial nominees?

Schumer: Because, yeah.

Mike: I believe Democrats did it in 2013 also.

Schumer: Nominees have been somewhat different. And I think this would be on the most major issue facing us to do this in a way that would affect all future legislation. It's way beyond what happened to nominees, as bad as that was.

Mike: You made a video recently on social media basically saying that Johnson is more worried about the release of Epstein files rather than what's going on in the emergency rooms and hospitals. Was that just politics, partisan theater? Or do you really think

Schumer: There’s something's really going on here. First, everyone wants the Epstein files released. It showed leaders of our country and government doing all kinds of very bad things and then covering it up. So even the MAGA people, you have so many of these MAGA people getting out and saying they should be released, okay? Johnson would not will release it. Trump wouldn't want to release it. Johnson, I have found to be a very political animal on most of these things or on too many of these things. And he's from a very conservative district. By the way, his district, this is another thing, his is one of the highest districts in losing healthcare dollars in the country because Louisiana doesn't do that much for healthcare. Anyway, so there's something called, it's very arcane, but it's called a discharge petition. And if you get 218 congressmen to sign the discharge petition, it has to come to the floor and then it would pass. There are now 217 who have signed it. And there's a newly elected congresswoman named Grijalva from Arizona. Her father passed away and she was just elected to the seat. Ah, and you bring up another point that I gotta make. If she is seated, there's 218 and the whole Johnson and the whole Epstein files are released. I have it in the video that we talked about a minute ago. That's one of the main reasons. The point I should make now is Johnson has not had the House in session for three weeks. How do you negotiate a deal if none of them are around and no one's talking to each other? Why? First, because he's afraid of bringing this to the floor and he thought he could bamboozle us into doing it, but now we see they've had 10 votes in each case. It's been the same vote and they keep doing it over and over again. But second, he's afraid of the Epstein files because if he brings the Congress back into session, he's gonna have to swear in Ms. Grijalva. It'll be 218 and the Epstein files will be released. So he's got both those things going. And it's despicable, it's disgraceful that here we have this health care crisis. Here we have people really gonna suffer and die and be sicker longer. What's the best thing we have? You know, our health. And he's doing this for political purposes. So yeah, I did this video to knock him a little bit to put a little pressure on.

Mike: One of my patients, I believe, or I don't think this is one of my patients, one of my friends the other day asked, isn't the reason that the shutdown is ongoing because Senator Schumer is afraid of AOC primarying him and he wants a distraction. Any truth?

Schumer: Zero. Zero. I'm doing this because I think it's the right thing to do. Period.

Mike: What do you tell the general public who's frustrated with losing trust in our nation? I mean, when the government shut down, that can't bode well for other nations taking us seriously. What reassurance do you need?

Schumer: If we succeed in dealing with this healthcare crisis, I think people's faith in the country will be greater. I think if we don't deal with this crisis, the people will be even more distraught. They'll say, what? They'll say WTF at the dinner table if they're allowed to say that at the dinner table. And they'll say, this is the most important thing to me and they couldn't fix it. I mean, again, it appalls me that Republicans would rather shut down the government with the harm it causes. We hate the shutdowns. I've always not liked shutdowns, as you talked about my earlier vote, months ago before this healthcare crisis started. But they're gonna say, how could they let this happen? Especially, it's not doing something new. The difference here. We're not trying to take something away. We're trying to just keep it as it is. And as it is, as I said, could always use improvement, but going back to where we used to be with no health insurance for nearly tens of millions of people is awful. Awful, horrible.

Mike: So if they do make this concession and they join you, would you give them credit for doing so?

Schumer: Yeah, for sure.

Mike: Yeah, the three issues that Republicans, and I think a lot of Americans, are really concerned about, wars, the budget, the fact that we're so in debt, and illegal immigration. Given that the policies have changed so abruptly, targeting those perhaps who are here illegally, there is less incentive for people to come here illegally, and there's been decreased illegal immigration happening under President Trump. Do you give them credit for that?

Schumer: We need, what he's done on immigration, I think is wrong, and he's done it in a vicious way, and also a haphazard way, arresting people and sending them without due process. We have due process in process of law, so we do not. We should have a good, strong immigration bill. And actually, we came up with one last year where there was a bipartisan bill. It would have stopped illegal crossings at the border, would allow more legal immigrants to come into the country. And it had the support of a lot of Republicans, even Thune. And Trump said, he wasn't President yet, don't do it, because I want to do it. He has not fixed this system at all, okay?

Mike: Thinking about the deficit, them trying to fight back and push on this healthcare spending, trying to lower the deficit, is there any rhyme or reason to cutting the deficit through focusing on healthcare cuts, given the fact that our healthcare system's so loaded?

Schumer: Okay, this is, I'm glad you brought this up. Where did the money go in this budget, where they cut a trillion dollars for healthcare? Tax cuts for billionaires. Now, I'm not against billionaires. Billionaires are like the American dream. There's some poor people in America who start out poor, work their butts off, and they get to be a billionaire. I'm not anti-billionaire. But they don't need a tax cut, particularly when it comes with such devastation. But they have a small group of very wealthy people. Billionaires, not, you know, newly made billionaires, who don't want to pay taxes. So they, one of the shibboleths of the, you know, one of the watchwords of the right wing is we've got to lower taxes. But who are they lowering taxes on, by and large? The richest people in America, who have a lot of political clout because of the money in politics. So yes, the deficit is real, but the number one reason that we did this, that they did this, was to give tax cuts to billionaires. That is far less important than saving the healthcare system.

Mike: What's your relationship like with these billionaires and these billion dollar companies? When they come for your reelection campaign, they donate a quarter million dollars. What do you say to them when they want you to go to bat for that, as opposed to your constituents?

Schumer: I say, if you're right, I'll agree with you. If you're wrong, I won't agree with you, period. And that's what I don't mind.

Mike: So that's all they get when they make a donation?

Schumer: They get, we give a fair look, but nothing more.

Mike: And then the final third of that conversation is about war. Do we give President Trump credit for creating peace in Gaza?

Schumer: Well, look, I have always, and I've been critical of Netanyahu, as you know, I've always said what we need, what we needed above all was a return of the hostages. Mike, I flew to Israel. I was the first, I'm the highest ranking Jewish elected official in America. And right after October 7th, a week later, I was the first elected official to fly there and tell the Israeli people, we have your back. And I met with the parents of people. One lady showed me a picture of her son, like 11, 12 years old on a motorcycle grabbed by these Hamas thugs waving goodbye to her. She was waving goodbye to him. That picture stayed in my head every day. There was another parent there who knew their son's arm was blown off. And would he survive? And another parent who was there, he sat in the room talking, said, I'm a doctor. And oftentimes when they are these, you would know this better than me, they heal the wounds, can be self-healing. So freeing the hostages, and I've gotten to know their families pretty well, is really important. And also getting a ceasefire. Look, the devastation that has occurred to the Gazan people has been awful. And I criticized Netanyahu repeatedly for the way he conducted the war. I thought they could have done more to minimize civilian casualties. As much as I think Hamas is a menace and danger, and without Hamas we have a much better chance for peace. And getting more aid in, not using food and basic substance as a way. So those two things have been accomplished. And look, there are a lot of people who deserve credit. Trump, other people, the Arab nations, some of the others, they deserve some credit. But we have a long way to go. And there's a real opportunity here, Mike. Because I believe, and one of my severe disagreements with Netanyahu even back then, when I spoke critically of him, I wasn't critical of him wanting to get rid of Hamas. That's a good thing. Because they're such a vicious, evil thing and they've been standing in line. But to be for a two-state solution. The Saudis want a two-state solution. The Saudis say they're willing to come in and rebuild a lot of the devastation in Gaza. Put in help with their financial resources, they're being the leader of the Sunni Arab world and their wealth. Put in a moderate Palestinian entity that maybe five years from now or 10 years from now could govern in a Palestinian demilitarized state. That's the hope. So we have a long way to go. But the door has been opened by this first agreement where a lot of people deserve some credit and pat something back. But we gotta keep at it. And one of my jobs will be pushing everybody I know, whether it is real in the Arab world or Trump administration, to not stop here. Because if we could revert back to the old way, but to get this two-state solution, which is gonna take a lot of work and a lot of effort and a lot of compromise. But ultimately, if we could get two states, this 75-year-old traumatic war, and I so believe we need an Israel, could actually bring some stability finally to the region.

Mike: As a doctor, I worry about the aid that is now perhaps not being sent to Gaza to the people that are in this war-torn area. So I hope that continues. Because that suffering for children, for families, that's absolutely devastating. The reason why I just wanted to explain why I'm pushing so hard to give credit for what credit's due at times, I know it's difficult in this political landscape. Because everything can be weaponized. Every soundbite can be weaponized. That's the era we live in. But I feel like the general public is getting tired of these gotcha, taken out of context, AI, deep fakes.

Schumer: They did one on me. Trump just did one on me yesterday.

Mike: I saw the Republicans yesterday.

Schumer: But they always wanna come up with some diversion as opposed to - anyway.

Mike: So the reason why I'm saying it is because I feel, and I've been quite vocal about this for the medical organizations in my world, AMA, AOA, whatever alphabet soup you wanna throw in there. The more we can be honest, transparent, even if it looks like it's weakening our position, long-term, I feel like it fortifies trust. So that's why when I'm giving you these three scenarios, perhaps that we could say President Trump is doing some things well so that we can come together a bit more.

Schumer: In my statement, I gave credit to a lot of people, but I included Trump.

Mike: Which some people refuse to do.

Schumer: And I got some criticism for it, but so be it.

Mike: How much are you in agreement with your party on the current state of the shutdown? Bernie Sanders?

Schumer: Everybody's on board on this from one end to the other. That's why they've had us both 10 times. They thought they could pressure us, bamboozle us, threaten us, and they haven't. And the vast majority of my caucus and the vast majority of the House caucuses. And the reason is we have been very proud of building up the healthcare system and letting people get decent healthcare. We don't wanna see it undone, particularly in one fell swoop like they did. So we feel, as I said, it's not, it's a moral imperative. It's a people imperative above everything else.

Mike: No effing way, as you said.

Schumer: I said that.

Mike: I mean, you got a lot of positive feedback from your party that you're standing up for this issue. Is there anything within the party not related to the shutdown that you guys are having disagreements about right now? Or is everyone on board fixes healthcare crisis first?

Schumer: Well, you know, I think there are some, I think overall we wanna fix it first. Everyone agrees we oughta negotiate. And look, a good negotiation when the Republicans realize that they should sit down and talk to us and Johnson realizes he oughta bring Congress back. You know, I tell people, federal workers are working and not getting paid and House Republicans are not working and getting paid. Federal workers are working and not getting paid. House Republicans are getting paid and not working. So I think we all agree that we should have a negotiation. Once we have that negotiation, there may be, you know, some people may want a little more, a little less. We have to solve the problem. That will be the watchword.

Mike: Well, Senator Schumer, I appreciate you taking the time to debunk all this misinformation, set the record straight. To conclude, I'd love if you will, and feel free to pass if you're not comfortable doing this, to our camera here, pretend you could send a message to President Trump. What would you like to say to him? He's listening right now.

Schumer: President Trump, the American people are suffering because of the cuts in the so-called Big, Beautiful Bill. When I saw you, you seemed to understand, it was body language and all of that, that how bad this is. Get Johnson and Thune, and perhaps you to sit down with Jeffries and I and negotiate a real, real way to get out of this terrible problem.

Mike: Senator Schumer, thank you so much for your work.

Schumer: Great to be here. Thank you. We've done some good things together.

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